Religion, Spirituality, and the Human Condition

I’m going to flesh this out by offering here a conversation I had with my NPR friend, Jerry:

Nice to hear from you, Jerry! I feel like one of those critters in that old cartoon (were they chipmunks?) where the two of them hang-out all the time being super polite to each other, "Oh! no, no ,no.. pardon me! I didn't thank you enough..." Really, the Serenity Prayer thing is/was right on. And so is the advice to take in, and embellish with, all the funny, humor, and humility I can. It's so great to be anchored in serenity and look out, as well as in, with an open sense of wonder and good humor... and of course integrity too!

But this little sidestep away from our seeming ability to main-line our communiqué pretty naturally, is a good lead-in to the dance of personal brew and Zen. So... given the real value and greater freedom of the Zen perspective (when it comes to not getting caught-up in the distortions of our personal baggage, and just being human), I'm wanting to look at the need and importance of "the baggage" and what this has to offer too. I think of the personal brew, or baggage, as being our homework, so to speak. The more we can deliberately take up those things that trip us up, trigger, torment, or overwhelmingly seduce us (addiction), etc., the more we can untangle the chains that hold us back, and unravel the secrets which hold the key to our greatest strengths. So, the compassionate and clean understanding of the Zen perspective is essential to not getting too tangled and lost in our own shortcomings, but the tangle of what isn't yet freed-up in our unique piece of the whole human puzzle... getting to that and releasing, healing that, is what it's all about. I think that's what we're all here for... to work that out until we're freed-up enough to help other people with their work. It's not about freeing one's self up from being in this physical human dilemma, but more about being so truly in our physical and very personal experience enough (with compassion and understanding) to bring real freedom to this... within the personal/physical. Heaven on Earth sort of thing... back to The Garden, and all. I actually tend to think that "heaven and hell" are a human creation, the icons that describe extreme polarity, which exist right here on Earth... and that we've all experienced both, to some degree.

And thanks for saying I'm "down to Earth", Jerry. I think it must take another fringe-dweller to see that. I'd love to see what you think... Is this perception, above, what Zen is actually all about, and I just didn't realize the embrace of selfness is as important to this art as learning how to step away from personal trappings to gain more clarity and freedom?... or have I actually paired Zen up with what it was created to avoid?

Jerry wrote:
Hi Anne !! Yes,..indeed,..chipmunks,..you crack me up :)
Gotta stay crazy ya know. Yeah, that Zen-baggage-entanglement-confusion thing....I think a lot of the trick is to 'move through' the Zen state in an advantageous mode, while being cognisant of the issues that may perplex you, but, at the same time not become to embroiled/consumed by adversities/perplexities that may encumber you in the process. It is true we can't help others without feeling good about ourselves in our own skins. I think as you do about that man made concept of heaven and hell. Many of us have been taught that a loving God will burn us up in hell forever if we anger him. I am having a little problem with that one. I am OK with God, but I have some reservations about some human/man-made ideas on the subject. I think religion is man-made and spirituality is God-given. You are right about experiencing both Heaven and Hell on Earth. I think if we come to terms with our own realities we stand a much better chance of experiencing the Heaven on Earth part of the equation. I think you have it down pretty-right-on-good. The Garden you speak of is available to us in many ways if we are willing to seek. The Zen state allows me to confront what I wish to avoid and come to terms with. Self revelation is the key to what ails me, allows me to heal and move through to a higher plane of existence. To error is human so I just stumble along with that thought in mind and do my best....sometimes I'm a bona fide nit wit, but we gotta just keep chuggin' along :) Be happy and get all the funny you can !!

Anne wrote:
Absolutely beautiful addition to the Etheridge/Obama thread, Jerry! Here's to hoping the majority will really take this in and strengthen their ability to see things as they are.

I'm curious about your religious roots, Jerry, if you have any. Were you raised with any particular religious backdrop? Keeping the unobtrusive poetic faith here! - Anne

Jerry wrote:
Hi Anne ! Thank you !! and..so good to hear from you. Religious background ?!..how to put this...extremely varied.

Origins based in European Catholicism and traveled thru your 'regular' North American protestant disciplines. I have studied theology quite a bit along with the historic implications of faith, it's relationship to war, and all that stuff. I have come to the conclusion that I am not a religious person as is generally defined, but a deeply spiritual person who believes in God. Begging to be blessed with optimism, I am a Seeker of Enlightenment which reinforces my desire to maintain a humanitarian nature. I have currently been studying the works of Paramahansa Yoganada and I have learned how to observe my place in the Universe and communicate with my creator. In many respects, my spiritual consensus gives a 'perch of observance' that allows me to have compassion enough, to somehow rise above the fray of the moment....it doesn't ALWAYS work that way, but I give it my best shot. I would say there is a strong Ancient Eastern Philosophy present in my current realm of thought. I have studied such things as my existence in the classical universe as well as the quantum universe, and I do not necessarily live here on Earth alone. I am a part of the Cosmos and look to my Mother Earth as the giver of life. I am deeply concerned with the deterioration of the human experience on Earth and truly believe that no Earthly leadership serves mans' best interests. Therefore, I draw upon my spiritual philosophy to persevere, and weather the storm of existing among the humans :) On the aggregate, I would venture to say the human race is actually quite mad and eternally hell bent on self destruction, ...I find this disturbing to say the least...I keep praying for a speedy recovery. I do my best not to "post out of character"...but I still get a little weird from time to time... (it's that late 60's-early 70's biker era slipping in)... still,.... we gotta pray for peace. Be well. Jerry

Anne wrote:
Thanks so much for all the background info., Jerry. I thought you must be classically well educated in this way. I'm not... but that hasn't stopped me from postulating about what this or that religious/spiritual icon or myth is really trying to point to, in essence.

"I am deeply concerned with the deterioration of the human experience on Earth and truly believe that no Earthly leadership serves mans' best interests." I think this is a really important statement, and it ties back into some of our other posts. I completely agree with this, but I want to clarify what I'm seeing here. I talked about a Zen experience-of-being walking in tandem with our uniquely personal baggage or stew, which is our piece of the human condition. I'm seeing "the deterioration of the human experience" as being the reality manifested by those who are entrenched in this human experience in a way that does not allow them to see, or make space for, what the truly enlightened aspects of spirit have to offer. And because of the heavy blow that so many organized religions have dealt to humanity, real freedom, and spiritual truth, many are so caught-up in the damage done, that they shun the much needed input from spirit because of how people equate this with the amazingly flawed, power-hungry, God of condemnation that the "Bible thumpers" hail to. To the extent that people are able to be open to spirit's input, they gain the tools needed to bring that in and transform their own experience, which then directly translates to improvement of this entrenched Human Condition. In what I'm trying to clarify here, spirit is not separate from the person. It is simply the essence, or spirit, or higher self of that person. Not that there aren't many other spiritual influences that we need to help guide us out of this mess. Just that, by getting in touch our own essence and spirit, and engaging that within our human experience, just as we've touched on before, is an essential part of this healing of the Human Condition.

So I look for ways to try and make this more available to people. And one way is to take up the most commonly held beliefs and stories within religious dictates and present them in a light that I think (I know, who am I to do this!!! right?) might be a bit closer to the essence of what was being offered originally. I can see anyone's first reaction being one of "incredulous blasphemy!", but how long can we go on with such a huge slice of Humanity locked in the chains of something that hasn't been allowed to evolve in a natural and healthy way... and which may very well have been grossly misconstrued in the first place? Would you be willing to look over some of these things with me?

Jerry wrote:
Made it back...got your message :) I think your interpretation of the "deterioration" thing I was talking about is on the button. The enlightenment aspects of what spirit is, and has to offer, is sorely missing by those entrenched as you describe. (This is one place leadership really drops the ball.) I believe organized religion has really let us all down. I remember a term paper I did on the history of religion and its place- influence on war...it was a very long term paper....not a pretty picture. There are some rather distasteful aspects around the origins of any given religious order. Hypocrisy is rampant in this respect and I find (as I think you do) much damage has been done in the name of God. To a great extent much spirit has been lost to the narrow confines of specific orders. I find your words speak well to the way it is. I admire your statement referring to the essence of self/spirit as an important part of the healing of the human condition. Looking for ways to make this available to others, (as you speak of), one can manage quite nicely (as you do), by being who you are in an open way, and leading by example of action as well as the spoken word. Maybe if enough of us do it, ..it will catch on.

God is everywhere and is the lifeforce of the Universe.

I like your reference on the "incredulous blasphemy" thing. Well,..I'm really good at that. My spiritual composition is absolutely not normal by any means :) And, yes, I am willing to look with you. I believe you to be right on about the evolution of our spiritual concepts. The dictates, teachings, and "facts" handed down through thousands of years must be put/taken into context. There is good stuff, bad stuff, and stuff that is flat out wrong. We gotta separate the fairy tales from reality. I am very sure that I am seen as a heathen by many religious persuasions....and if so, it must remain as it is.
My position is that for humans to have a future on Earth we must do our best to rectify the spiritual bankruptcy that is (in my opinion) at the source of conflict. Although the ancient Greeks believed in many Gods, they also had an essential concept as do I...maybe I have said it before....
...."Man as a part of the Cosmos, depends for Life and Consciousness, upon the Fire of the Universe."

The people of Earth most literally cannot see the forest for the trees. As an idealist, I can only imagine how good it could be if everyone stopped long enough to look up and out to the heavens, and take stock of their place in space, time, and the Universe in which we live. My energy vibrations are working on it every day....'nuf said Anne...that's a book. When I get started I tend to go with the flow on this "item"...it is a big deal for me. I don't find too many people "on this page."
Keep it coming.....be well. Peace. jerry

Anne wrote:
Hi Jerry! Getting right down to it... "Looking for ways to make this available to others, (as you speak of), one can manage quite nicely (as you do), by being who you are in an open way, and leading by example of action as well as the spoken word. Maybe if enough of us do it, ..it will catch on." I know what you're saying here - well done. By saying I want something to be more available, I don't mean going out and promoting this, marketing it, or broadcasting it in any way. In fact, I tend to think the whole conversion thing, with missionaries and all, could be one of the biggest key factors in the down-fall of truly enlightened offerings. No spiritual awakening can be forced. It's only when a person opens up, or reaches out, of their own free will, to take up and assimilate what's always been right there waiting, which truly allows for a healthy and graceful awakening/embracing of spirit. (Now I could have said: ...which truly allows for the Grace of God to shine through and within. But I've always had a hard time using the term "God" because I find it hard to do so without conjuring up all the things which have been tagged on and misconstrued about God...which isn't something I want to be referencing. I'd kind-of rather go with the Star Wars version, "The Source" [my mistake - plug in the “Force” there], since it congers an image that isn't laden with centuries of distortion. But I'll just go with whatever feels right for the moment.) Anyway! Yes! if the true wisdom of spirit is force-fed by religion, then you end up going backwards and layering in complicated distortions that then need to be undone before actually making headway toward true spiritual awareness. So, by just having this discussion, I think we're doing our part to resonate these things in a way that can be heard by those who have ears for it.

So I'm looking at Adam & Eve, and the forbidden fruit:
We were in a park last summer when a group of religious people, who had set themselves up with a powerful sound system at the other end of the park, started up a Holy Roller type sermon. As I was being bombarded by what seemed to me like abusive crap echoing out of loudspeakers, it occurred to me how the concept of "the knowledge of good and evil casting Adam & Eve out of the Garden of Eden" might be more purely viewed.

The apple (forbidden fruit) was symbolic of a form of knowledge which was not yet present. It was only this knowledge that made something which was idyllic into something that was, all of a sudden, not okay. In fact, it brought shame and torment. I'm willing to bet, that the type of knowledge this points to is the discerning, judging mind of entrenched Humanity without the wisdom and grace of spirit. Once people began to use their Human minds alone to apply value judgments to life's events and ways of being, we saw the beginning of a polarization which cemented itself into "good & evil". In this way, it's not really a person's actions that determine good or evil as much as the application of judgment. It's "the need to discern in order to polarize" itself, which cast humanity out of the blissful natural space of not applying judgment and condemnation, instead of just seeing things, truly, for what they are, with wisdom and compassion. That it's the mind's need to dominate, and use knowledge and reason (in a contrived way) to isolate wrongness, call that evil, and condemn, banish, or nail this to a tree, which has thrown us out of "God's Grace".

It seemed ironic that the preacher, who was busy jabbing his finger threateningly at the evil in people and the world, and ranting about the need for people to repent... if seen in the light I've just presented, would itself be the embodiment of evil.

Jerry wrote:
Yes Anne ...I like the 'The Source' concept too. Some people prickle up and turn off when the "God" word is used. Correct me if I am wrong here, but IF I understand what you say about organized religion and it's way of jamming spirituality down your throat....Spiritual concepts don't come with the fear tactics used by the ordered disciplines....it brings to mind that even George Carlin, (heathen that he was :),...reminded us of the paradox of an all-loving God who is vengeful enough to send the 'bad ones' to a place of burning eternal damnation.

When you told me about the religious 'loud speaker people' I immediately go into my 'holy crap' mode....followed by my Gandhi mode.....I can't help but have some compassion for these poor, poor, misguided, well-meaning, flat out crazy people. In a way it reminds of the religious-God-War-Mechanisms of the Middle East....complete insanity.
My impression is that those who scream the loudest, pounding the Bible with an unsolicited presence, are the ones ya gotta look out for.....this rabid intensity has lost spiritual focus and is drawing energy from a spiritual existence. This where I open my eyes real wide, look sideways, and raise an eyebrow.

Your thoughts on the product of the forbidden fruit I find to be very appropriate. The Devil is not necessarily the one that made me "do it". Judgements and values are very different across cultural borders, therefore spiritual concepts of 'good & evil' are very different...quite often, polar opposites. The evidence is in the daily news. I can't help but think that the organized religions of the world, and their polarizing affects, have done far more damage than good overall. But, hey, I'm just one nutjob out there with a politically incorrect opinion....what can I say ?

I agree about the irony of the finger pointing pulpit pounder warning us to embrace repentant ways, or suffer the consequences...is this compassion or a smug warning ? I must recall here the concepts of Christianity about 'the right to judge'...and the little thing like, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".....I must also insert here that I feel a good deal of 'benevolence and humility' has lost in the context of overpowering voices trying to impose 'righteous agendas'.

I think your thoughts on the essence of human spiritual roots, and nuance of the following/expanding results are well appraised. To become enlightened in such a fashion as you are, would do well to serve the best interests of those troubled souls in conflict. ( i.e. most of the planet )

I often think of what a grand Planet-Place in the Cosmos we would have to live on, if humans had the ability to live a truly spiritual existence. The totality of the Universe is overwhelming when I look to it. From it I draw my strength.

I simply must find some inappropriate twisted humor in all of this....it will probably become more evident as time goes by :) :) Don't hesitate to staighten me out if I didn't "get you" right....you and your critter are a cool picture..I'll find a good one for me someday...mine are never good :)....Be well...NAMESTE.

Anne wrote:
I do believe you understand me just perfectly, Jerry... and turned over a few nuggets of interest along the way. I wonder if I should go have a look here at those things you touched on, or go a little further into the concept vs. reality of "God"? Hmmmmm... I guess just a brief thought about God: Peggy wrote something to Irv about how W actually thinks God is talking to him. (I actually don't think W does believe this at all, but instead just uses God as an excuse to go to war. What's new?! But that's beside the point.) I think that some people really do hear voices, but this doesn't mean it's God's voice per se. Different people's impressions of what God is, is intriguing to me. I really wouldn't want to judge or change any of these, because what people come up with is often symbolic in an important, if not sacred, way. So in offering my own perspective, I don't mean to dispel any others. It just seems to me that trying to truly grasp God would be like trying to wrap your mind around the whole universe (and beyond! :) as you and I seem to be trying to do. And that man being made in God's image comes down to all of physical manifestation (as well as dark matter/dark energy) being God experiencing, expressing, and exploring itself. So in that way, Jesus might have recognized himself as being God's son, but so are all the rest of us, including animals and the natural world. Well! guess I didn't do a very good job of paring that down into something brief!

So anyway, absolutely!... I don't buy the scare tactics used by anybody's disciples or other disciplines. It may be true that, in a cause and effect sort of way, we reap what we sow, but threatening people with condemnation and Hell has no beneficial aspects to it at all, that I can see. It may help someone to understand: if you do that, them most likely, this will be the result... but from a place of wisdom and patience, and the strength to respectfully prevent catastrophe if that's the most likely outcome. But I don't believe fear mongering is ever in our best interest.

And I guess I feel the need to say something positive about the organized religions of the world, because I know many people truly have benefited in various ways. But I'd have to say, that this has more to do with each individuals unique personal efforts, rather than being due to anyone who has pushed an agenda.

So where is that twisted, inappropriate humor anyway?... I know it's around here somewhere... Anybody?